Jayco Dealership Experience

I gathered some interesting primary research on the Jayco Jay Flight 267bhs today.  These trailer guys are more old school than the local Lincoln dealership, but after about 100 questions I go all the answers I needed price-wise.

As a starting point, the dealer website clearly has 2 Jay Flight Swift 267bhs models for 23,999, one of which is here:http://www.livelifeoutdoors.com/products.php?id=9177

But when I went in to get some pricing they told me it was $25,999.  I mentioned the website price and they just said they have problems with their website.  I was turned off right from the start but soldiered on.  I took a look at the unit, I mean it has everything we need with an electric awning and front jack which is nice.  Right away he went to the $105 bi-weekly payment, which is over 20 years.

My next steps were to reverse engineer that payment since each dollar on 20 years of bi-weekly payments is about $500.  Using my handy dandy excel spreadsheet and their 5% rate I come up with a price before tax of about $30,500.... which is $4,500 more than the already jacked up $26,000 selling price.  Just as another note, if you amortize a camper over 20 years you pay about $20,000 in interest at 5%.  More than likely we would keep it a few years and unload it but would have next to none of the principle balance paid off in a few years with a 20 year loan.

Anyway I had to figure out what made up that $4,500... and here it is.... extended warranty up to 7 years ($2,000), pdi ($600), bank fees ($300), sway bars ($300).... and that was it, so I am still $1,300 short even with all that foolishness added in.  Then it hit me, they were "including" a $1,000 gas card, actually I was probably just pre paying for $1,000 gas.  

So obviously this won't work for me, I don't mind paying for what I like but I'm not going to pay more than I should for what I like.  I am going to go back to the dealer but I am getting a sour taste already.

Travel Trailer Sizes

Ok, so in my last post I said I would provide more info on travel trailer sizing, so here goes...

Travel Trailers in the under-4000-pounds - 

Range in size from the compact 13-foot trailer models up to those measuring approximately 22 feet. The larger travel trailer units are suitable for extended use, while the smaller units make great weekenders.

The 18-foot and larger models offer full bathroom facilities, including a separate shower and a fully equipped galley.Living room and dining-area space and furniture are governed in large part by the overall size of the unit, with the more elaborate layouts being found toward the upper limits in size, class, price and weight.

The larger models in this size class require some serious consideration of the tow vehicle selected. There is a wide range of vehicles that will tow this size trailer, but the tow vehicle must be selected with the total weight of the trailer in mind.

Prices for travel trailers under 4000 pounds can range from $9000 to $20,000.

Travel Trailers Over 4000 Pounds - 

Depending on the floorplan, these units -- like their smaller counterparts -- are suitable for large families or for extended use by two people. With the increased size (they range between 25 and 37 feet), there is a wider selection of floorplans available. Some of the options are aimed at the large family, such as a separate bunkhouse-style rear bedroom. 

For two people, the larger models offer generous living accommodations. Top-of-the-line models have facilities and space quite competitive with the larger motorhomes, but at more manageable prices. Slide-out rooms are becoming much more common in the larger units for the increase in living space they offer, but the buyer should be aware that sliders noticeably increase weight as well as space. Even when a new tow vehicle is factored in, the price range for the more expensive travel trailers is well below the higher-priced motorhomes.

Most of these units will require a pickup truck or a truck-based vehicle, such as a Suburban or a full-size van for towing. Any of these tow vehicles, including a pickup truck if a shell is added, is suitable for "cartopping," the ability to carry a good-size fishing boat, for trailering anglers. These larger units make an excellent choice for a couple on a budget who want to spend extended periods of time in their RV.

Any size trailer has a major advantage over the motorhome when it is set up for living, since the tow vehicle is free for local transportation. Conversely, the trailer is only available for use when stopped, as opposed to the motorhome's facilities, which are available while moving.

Prices for travel trailers over 4000 pounds can range from $12,000 to $75,000.

In my next post I will get into some more info on tow vehicles.

Motor-Homes 101 - Class 3

So this post isn't exactly about motorhomes but rather the motorhome alternative..... travel trailers.  Travel Trailer use greatly outnumbers motorhome use at least in this part of the woods.  There is only one local dealer selling motorhomes as far as I know although you can find a decent selection in the local online classifieds.

Anyway the big obvious difference between motorhomes and travel trailers is the lack of a motor in the travel trailer, as a result you need something to tow it.  And don't think you will just hook the old CRV up to one of these babys and head out the highway.  You might get a pop up variety like this one from Jayco but only the smallest of these is under 2000 lbs, a CRV can only tow about 1400.  You can check some out at: http://www.jayco.com/products/camping-trailers/jay-series-sport/floorplans-specs

Unless you will be towing the smaller pop up type travel trailer you will need a pick-up truck.  And not just any pick-up truck.  You will need a full size pick-up with a towing package.  Even a modest size travel trailer can have a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 6000 lbs, and that is very modestly sized.  The GVWR is the weight of the trailer plus its carrying capacity.  You should go by the GVWR and not the weight of the trailer because by the time you add water, propane tanks, luggage, bikes, bedding, food etc.... you will be closer to the GVWR than just the weight of the trailer.  And if you pull a trailer with a vehicle that can't handle the weight you will destroy your vehicle's engine and transmission.

In my next post I will get into more of the particulars about travel trailer sizes and amenities as well as recommended tow vehicles.

Motor-Homes 101 - Class 2

Ok, so I've been doing motorhome research for a couple weeks now and have a few observations to share:

I can't see why you would buy one of these new.  The cheap ones are about $100,000 after tax, and like a new car they depreciate like a rock, but it seems even more so.  Most used models about 6 to 8 years old go for 30-40,000.  I guess that's the point that the owner either wants to up-size or down-size, or maybe has just gotten tired of the pink velvet interior.  But either way some of these machines don't get much use and you can pick a nice looking used one up for about 1/3 the original price.  If you get bored after a couple years you could just sell it again.

There are about 1000 different floor plans, models and layouts.  In fact it's difficult to find good comparison pricing material.  I went to Islander RV and they didn't have prices on anything, they also had limited selection of smaller motorhomes.  I'll save my full Islander RV post for later this week.

Class C motorhomes seem like the best bet for a starter motorhome for a small family.  They come with the bunk over the cab plus another bed usually in the back for anything over 24'.  Even the 21' - 23' ones have a sofa and table that can convert to a bed to sleep 6..... well 6 munch-kins but they can sleep 4 fairly comfortably.  I can't imagine the converted table is very cozy though.....

The Class A just seem too large for occasional use, they are the hardest on gas and are expensive to maintain.  Class A are the ones that look like a bus.  Not for weekend trips to Butterpot but would probably be nice if you were Snow-birding it to Florida for 6 months of the year.  They are the most like a home away from home.

Class B are like the traditional Class C motor-home but without the bed over the cab, which makes them look a bit nicer.  So you lose sleeping for 2 but get a nicer looking rig.  Good trade off if you only want to sleep two or three people, they are also slightly better on gas than the Class C.

There doesn't seem to be a large availability of motorhomes in this area, the travel trailers seem more popular by about 100 to1.  The largest market is in private sales and these guys that bring motorhomes in from the mainland and Florida, here is one of their ads:
http://www.nlclassifieds.com/classifieds/RecreationVehicles/Motorhomes/902753

So Class C motorhomes seem to be the way to go for occasional motorhome camping with a small family.  The 25'-28' models mostly have queen beds in back, bunk over the cab and a decent kitchen and bathroom.

But then you have to ask yourself..... why does everyone use travel trailers here and not motorhomes?

Motor-homes 101 - Class 1

So I spent a couple of days doing some motor-home research.  It's hard to find good websites related to motor-homes for some reason.  One thing I have come to realize, buying a motor-home is an expensive proposition.  First you have the up front cost, then you have to insure it (not sure what the cost is but it will be more than a car), maintain it, clean all the tanks and make sure the windows are properly sealed every year.... and then you have to fill the thing with gas and pay camp-site fees if you want to travel anywhere.

A relatively small new Class C off the lot motor-home will run you close to $100,000 after tax and all fees.  So that brings me to me first fact finding mission..... what is the difference between a class A, B or C motor-home.  I would try and explain it all myself but there are a few websites that do an admirable job:

Different motorhome types offer huge variety and price ranges. Classes of motorhomes labeled A, B and C. Diesel and gas. Let's break it down.

Class A: Largest Motorhomes

Class A's are built on a specially-constructed chassis designed for motorhomes. Lengths range from 26 - 45 feet. Slideouts are common. 
Pushing a button makes part of the room slide out, and voila!, you have more space. Newer models have as many as 4 slides. The "home" part of the motorhome includes its own heating, air conditioning, electric system, propane supply, and water tanks (fresh water, grey water, black water).

Accommodations include all the essentials - kitchen with microwave/oven, fridge, cooktop, dining area, living area, bedroom and bathroom. Washer/dryer may be standard or an option (or you can use the space otherwise - based on your lifestyle). It's pretty standard to have a VCR and two TVs (living and bedroom). Flat screen LCD TVs are becoming common at the high end of the spectrum.

The further you go up in price, the more bells and whistles - hydraulic leveling systems, electric awnings, heated ceramic tile floors, dishwashers, trash compactors, automatic sunscreens, GPS, and so on.

Class A motorhome types include gas or diesel-powered. The diesel varieties are generally more expensive than gas, and are called diesel pushers - meaning the diesel engine is in the back of the motorhome (diesel pullers described below).

At the most luxurious end of the range, Class A motorcoaches are called highliners. And at the top of the heap, and some would argue in a class by themselves, are totally custom coaches like the Prevost. Suffice it to say that there is a wide array of choices, floor plans, and interiors ranging from practical to luxurious - with corresponding price tags from $60,000 to over $600,000 to the millions of dollars.

Bottom line: The Class A motorhome type offers the motorhomeconvenience of being able to access your living space while on the road. Lots of choices for features and interiors, and good basement storage. A favorite with fulltimers who move around a lot (with fifth-wheels being another fulltimer favorite). More about Class A motorhome types...

Class B: Camper Vans or Van Conversions

Class B's are built on a van chassis with an elevated roof, so you can stand up inside. Lengths range from 17- 19 feet.

Accommodations are tucked inside - usually cooking facilities, sink, small fridge, convertible bed/dinette, toilet, fresh water and waste water tanks, and electric outlets. Interior space can be limited, so these are not for large groups or extended living. But they are workable for a couple, and for overnight stays or camping trips.

One of our readers (a couple who spends 3-6 months at a time in their class B), has observed that when they pull into a campground, they have many people interested in their Class B, and hear comments like "with less space, you have everything one needs and great gas milage (22-25mpg diesel)".

There is growing variety in designs and models of this motorhome type. Prices range from $40,000 - $100,000.

Bottom line: The Class B motorhome type offers versatility and fuel economy. They can easily maneuver around town and tight rural spaces, serve as a second family vehicle, and can be used for light towing.

Class C: Mini-Motorhomes

Class C's are built on a regular automotive chassis with both driver and passenger side doors. Lengths range from 22-35 feet. In addition to a regular bed, they usually have a bed over the cab (hence they are sometimes called a "cab-over" motorhome). 

Slide-outs are common these days, extending the living space. These tend to be scaled down versions of a class A.

The home has its own heating, air-conditioning, plumbing and electrical systems. And typical accommodations include kitchen with microwave/oven, fridge, cooktop, dining area, living area, bedroom, bathroom, washer/dryer, VCR, TVs, etc. Optional features vary by manufacturer and model. Prices for a Class C range from $50,000 to $150,000.

Bottom line: The Class C motorhome type offers smaller sizes and price tags often attractive to new and/or budget-minded RVers. Its cab-over bed extends sleeping quarters for families. And it has the motorhomeconvenience of being able to access your living space while on the road.More about Class C Motorhomes...

Diesel Pullers:

These motorhome types have a diesel engine up front, in a truck-like cab with driver and passenger side doors. The diesel puller looks more like a truck, while the dieselpusher looks more like a bus.

There is a lot of variation in this new form of RV. Numerous manufacturers offer an assortment of choices ranging from a 16-foot Class B van-type to a huge 45-foot Class C motorcoach.

Bottom line: Another example of the constantly changing RV world, from which you can create your RV lifestyle.

Your best bets to learn about motorhome types, or narrow down what's right for you? Visit the RV shows and some local dealers. Explore manufacturer and dealer websites to check out different models and classes of motorhomes. You have to see these things.