BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine - Almost Mine

It's been forever since I did any kind of post, but I have some material that I can't pass up.  I've recently been getting the itch to get myself a new car, the Optima is now just over 2 1/2 years old so it's about time.  The only problem is of course that 2 1/2 years into a five year purchase will probably leave me under water a bit on the car loan.  I've been doing some looking around and getting a feel for where I am at if I were to trade in the Optima but I want to skip over all that detail for now and get to my recent BMW visit.

I saw they had $3,000 off a demo on their lot so figured I would check it out.  I got some numbers on the demo and it worked out like this:

Car price before tax - $56,740
Less discount - $3,500 (they bumped it up from $3,000)
Financed amount - $53,240
Residual - $23,150 (for four year lease)
Rate - 1.9%
Payment - $687 + $89 HST = $776

As usual it is not humanly possible to work out the lease payment manually and this was about $100 more than the website payment per month.  I could see the residual was about $1,000 lower on the dealer calculation, they had excess wear coverage included which was about $1,200, $595 dealer admin fee and other misc items like window tint, wheel locks and all weather mats.  They also probably just jack the price up above MSRP for some additional profit margin.  So I could almost see where the difference was coming from.  As usual with Newfoundland car monopolies you were going to pay through the nose.

The next step was to get a ballpark figure on my trade.  He figured it would come in around 13-14 k which was what I heard elsewhere but that was too low to make the BMW worth my while at this point.  Before I left he figured he could squeeze out $14.5 k which was still too low but he told me he would send me a revised quote with the trade worked in.  When I got the quote I was shocked, the trade was in at $16,500 and on top of that I get the tax savings on the trade so I was at about $18,650, leaving me out only a small amount on the Optima.  He also snuck out the excess wear coverage to make the payment exactly the same as it was before the trade was worked in, making it seem like I was losing nothing on the Optima.

In the meanwhile I had taken the car out for a test drive and absolutely loved it.  It was a silver 2014 BMW 328i xdrive with the sport and premium packages.  It had significant kms on it though since it was a demo, 11,000.  I figured that's why they came up in the trade, they needed to get rid of it ASAP. I'd give more details on the car but it's not the important part of this post.  Needless to say it was awesome.

The deal wasn't fantastic but it seemed reasonably fair with the trade at $16,500 so off I went with every intention of getting the car.  I had also double checked the trade amount and the salesman assured me it was correct.  So I went in, took a second test drive and started the paperwork.  The salesman went off to finalize the deal and came back saying HE MADE A MISTAKE ON THE TRADE.  Yes the trade was actually $14,500 meaning I was out $2,600 with the tax savings.  I was upset beyond belief, I'd like to think this was an honest mistake but I'm not sure it was.  He tried to tell me it was only $X more a month but I just got up told him I was very disappointed and left.  It would seem like he manipulated the numbers to get me in hoping I wouldn't leave..... but I'm hoping that wasn't the case.....

Oh well.... close but no cigar!

2014 Jeep Wrangler Sport - Part 1

I've been out looking around thinking we need another vehicle for my oldest son.  I was considering a few options, of course as mentioned in previous posts I have been testing out the Mercedes C Series and Cadillac ATS which I liked very much as a vehicle for myself.

As fate would have it I heard on the radio that Jeep had $3,500 off Wranglers, I thought there would be a catch so I cheeked it out.  Sure enough online there is $3,500 off so it caught my interest a bit.  I emailed the Jeep salesperson I knew (I know salespeople at every dealership in town now) and they actually had a deal on where you could get a better deal today than advertised. So he was offering $4,500 off even a base model jeep.

I quickly went to the online inventory and they had a very basic black Jeep sport automatic for $25,635 + tax and dealer charges like admin fees.  I was liking the idea of a Jeep for about $25,000 since they hold their value so well I could probably buy it and sell it tomorrow for about the same amount.

My next step was to contact my Jeep salesperson and drop by for a visit.  Myself and oldest son dropped in this afternoon..... A $500 deposit later I am almost the proud owner of  new Jeep...

Details to follow!

Mercedes - Test Drives

I had some time to kill on a Saturday so I stopped by Mercedes for a test drive, which ended up as two test drives.  I took out a 2011 c300, it is really nice to drive but I was hoping for a bit more get up and go.  Not that it was slow or anything but maybe after testing the 3.6 L ATS a couple of weeks ago most cars will be a bit slower in comparison.  The car is nice on the inside, the info screen is a bit strange, more like a digital radio screen than info screen but it covers up if you don't want to use it.  One especially interesting option was headlight washers that activate every 5 times you wash your wind-shield.  I never pushed on price because I am not at the commitment stage yet.  They have good deals on certified used at 1.9% financing for 5 years and they make your first three payments for you.

After taking out the C300 I noticed a nice red CLA 4-matic on the lot. (Pictured above)  Since I was there and had some time to kill I took the CLA out for a spin over the same route as the C300.  Driving the red CLA I got a lot of looks from other drivers, this thing really stands out.  The 4-matics have nice flared rear fenders and honeycomb rear grill.  Unfortunately I din't enjoy driving it as much as the C300.  It wasn't bad to drive it just didn't feel as planted as the C series.  I am also not a fan of the info screen sitting on the dash although it did seem more useful than the screen in the C300.  There was also some noticeable lag but once it got going it had plenty of power.  

The CLA looks really stand out but I'm torn on the styling whereas the C series is more conservative and classic.  It also drives better in my opinion.  Right now the new C has $3,000 off and 0.9% financing as their starting point and obviously they could do better.  The MB dealership here is much smaller than the BMW, they only have 4 C series on the lot for instance, whereas there are about 20 3/4 series on the bmw lot at any one time.  The lack of selection is a bit of a downside, and with the new C coming out in the summer they probably won't be getting many more 2014's in.

Anyway something else to think about......I really don't need a new car but it doesn't hurt to look!

Cadillac ATS Test Drive

Took a trip to my local Cadillac dealer last week to try out an ATS.  I had my eye on a black 2.0T performance edition but they couldn't seem to locate it.  The guy was looking everywhere and had the key in his hand when I got there but it seemed to be on the missing list.  I was there earlier in the week looking myself and they had 6 ATSs on the lot but I couldn't see the black performance anywhere.  

So he had the 3.6 L Luxury ready for me.  Maybe it was the bait and switch but I couldn't be sure, either way the 321 HP V6 sounded good to me.  He assumed I would want him to come along but I told him I'd rather go myself so eventually he just let me go.  The salesguy was a younger guy and he said he had fun "burning" the caddy earlier and when I started it up the music was blaring.  

The leather seats were nice, and it was well appointed.  Right away I noticed the lack of buttons on the dash, it was all touch.  I tried to adjust the radio volume and it was more difficult than I would like, one volume knob would have gone a long way.  There was not one single knob on the entire dash.  I wasn't too concerned however because I only had about 20 minutes and I wanted to take this baby for a good run.  

I headed straight for the highway and this 3.6 beauty can put out.... there is about a 1/10 of a second it thinks about it and then kicks in big time, major pick up and acceleration.  It handles really tight and braking is great.  The ride is a bit harsh but maybe that is normal for a stiff handling car.  I switched between driving modes but they were all a bit rough.  Unfortunately at this time of year NL roads are full of potholes and bumps, I'm sure with a normal road it wouldn't be quite so bumpy.

The car handled wonderfully and had tons of power.  If I'm looking to lease I can get into this for less than $700 / month while a similar Mercedes is about $900 and BMW $1,000.  

We get a new vehicle Part 4 - Ford F-150

We were never really Ford people, I once had a Focus which was a fine little car but nothing special.  My better half liked the look of the F150 FX4 however so I figured I would check them out.  If you go to the website and spec one out with a luxury package which adds several nice things such as heated and cooled seats it comes out somewhere close to $55,000 plus tax before rebates.

Luckily they were offering $9,250 in rebates at 3.49% financing over five years.  All in this vehicle was about $1,000 per month... a bit out of our price range.  But the good thing about dealing with Ford is that they always offer additional discounts due at least in part due to the fact that there are two dealerships within one KM of each other on the same street.  You can easily play one off against the other.

So I headed off to dealership #1, from the online inventory I could see they had a nice black FX4 in stock with the luxury package but no sunroof.  Also, it had the 5L engine instead of the 3.5 L Ecoboost which is supposed to be better on gas and has a higher towing capacity, I was hoping for the Ecoboost.  I told the salesguy we wanted their absolutely best price because we would be buying something within the week.  I think the sooner you tell them you are buying something the better offer you get, at least at some dealerships, others won't budge.  Around town many dealerships have the advantage of a monopoly so getting any kind of deal at say Subaru or BMW is hopeless.

The MSRP on the vehicle was in the $55,000 range, he came back with an extra $4,784 off the vehicle over and above the $9,250 in discounts already being offered plus we were eligible for a $1,000 Costco discount bringing it down to $45,000 on the road, as they like to say, after tax.  All in all we were now very interested in this vehicle, and the salesperson was very nice which always helps.

So we told him we were interested but would be checking at the other dealership down the street to make sure they didn't have a better offer on the same vehicle.  He assured us they would not beat the price and asked us not to let them know what price we were getting to see if they would match it without knowing.  Of course I would be letting the other guys know exactly what the offer was from dealership #1 in hopes they would be very anxious to beat it.

In the next post comes the conclusion.....

We get a new vehicle Part 1

So it all started to ramp up about a week ago.  For some time my better half has been saying she would like to get a truck.  We were thinking maybe in a year or two when her current vehicle was paid off we might do something.  But then a couple of things happened to create the perfect storm for truck buying.

As she was driving to my parents house a couple weeks ago another driver swerved out around a parked car and to avoid a head on collision on the slippery roads she drove into a snow bank.  As a result the front bumper cover and guard cracked and bent back under her front wheel.  The other driver just kept on going..... what a total jerk, he was driving a beige corolla of all things to top it off.  She says if she had a truck he wouldn't have been so aggressive and if he was she would just have run him over.

Circumstance number two is this horrible winter we have been having so far. We have the most snow ever on the ground as of the end of December, it seems like it snowed for the entire month of December.  With a truck snow banks are just minor speed bumps.

Circumstance number three are widespread power outages over the past week that are very disconcerting.... and what better vehicle to have during an Armageddon type situation than a big honkin' pick-up truck.

There are also other reasons like being able to carry around large items, bring our snow blower around and towing for a possible trailer in our future.

So my goal became clear at the beginning of last week..... go find her a nice pick-up at a reasonable price..... this was a challenge I welcomed!

Buying a second (actually third) car.

At some point over the next year we will probably need another car.  My oldest son needs daily transportation back and forth to school about 50 km away and my second son is just over a year away from getting his drivers permit.

I was toying with the idea of getting myself a new car next year but I want to move up to a compact luxury and to get one with the same options as my Optima gets a bit pricey, even for leasing as mentioned in my previous post, so I think I will put that plan on hold for maybe two or three years (subject to change as usual).

There are two basically three options to choose from:

1) Buy a used beater and hope they get some good use out of it
2) Buy a gently used decent car
3) Buy a new car

I am thinking a compact sedan would be best, the sub-compacts almost seem too small and there are a lot more compact sedans to choose from, especially used.  There is also not a big price difference between the two but you can actually fit full sized humans in the back of most compacts, not so much with the sub-compacts.

Obviously the first stop is Kijiji to see what is out there in the used car market.  There are usually about 1,000 sedan type cars for sale at any given time.  The most abundant being in order Chevy, Toyota, Hyundai, Pontiac, and Honda.  So here are a few problems with that list..... I would never buy a used Chevy for starters, you just don't hear anything good about them.  Hyundai models before the restyling in 2011 are just plain ugly, the Accent hatch is not too bad but not great either.  Pontiac.... well since they no longer exist I would stay away from them as well.  Toyota only has the Corolla, Matrix or Yaris in smaller cars.  The Corolla will last forever, but it's just soooooo boring looking.  There is no way I can have a pink or beige Corolla parked in my driveway.  Next on the list is Honda, you really can't go wrong with a Civic, the problem is that used Civics are fairly expensive.

Then you have the Kia, Mazda and Fords.  Like the previous generation Hyundai, the Kia's just look so dated, although the Rio5 does not look too bad and can be had fairly cheaply.  The Mazda 3 makes for a good used car, the only problem there being we already own one and I can't have two of the same car.  As for Ford's, I wouldn't buy a used one.

If you look at the pricing of the used 2010 Civics, they are on dealer lots from about $12,000 - $14,000 with 40,000 km and up.  A 2013 Civic LX goes for $21,000 including delivery and pdi, so for about $8,000 you get a three year newer car with full warranty, no possible problems from previous owners, all the latest car gadgets and lower interest rates.

When buying used most times the rates are similar to bank rates, around 6% over 5 years.  Most new car rates now range from 0% (like my optima) to 3%.  Right now the 5 and 7 year rates on a 2013 Civic is 1.99%. Also, if you are so inclined you can get longer term loans on a new car to bring down the monthly payment.  The longer term and lower rates help bridge the gap between new and used.

There are a lot of things to consider and while conventional wisdom is that its always better to buy used since a car loses 15% - 20% of it's value once it leaves the lot, try to buy a one day old car for 20% less than a new one........  There is a lot of upside to buying new.

To be continued..... and I'm sure I'll change my mind 100 times by the time we get something.

Mercedes CLA - Part 2

Above you see two cars, one the left a 2014 Mercedes CLA and on the right a 2014 Mercedes C Class.  You will notice how they look nothing alike, and the one on the right costs about $6,000 more than the one on the left...... hmmmm...... something does not seem right about that.

Here's the thing though, in order to keep moving the current C Class they are offering extra content and lower rates than the CLA.  Standard on the C Class now for 2014 you get (avantgarde edition they call it) heated seats, panoramic sunroof, AMG styling, sport package and suspension and a few other goodies.  The CLA offers a similar package for $2,800, reducing the price gap to about $3,000.

The other benefit the C Class currently has is the finance rate.  The 5 year rate for the CLA is currently 2.9% while the C is 0.9%, the six year rates are 3.4% and 1.4% respectively.  This amounts to about $40 a month or $2,500 to $3,000 over the life of the vehicle.  That basically takes care of the initial apparent price gap.

So if these cars cost about the same for similar content which one is the better buy?  I have looked at as many online reviews as I can find and here is what I can see as the main benefits to going with the CLA:

Fuel economy - 6.6 l/100 km to 8.1 l/100km
Horsepower - 208 to 201
Torque - 258 to 229
0-100 time - 6.7 secs to 7.2 secs
Styling - Just look at the pictures, if you are over 50 you may like the on the right more, but Mercedes is not looking for you to buy a CLA.
Price - If you buy a base model it is less expensive but really all things considered it is about the same as a similarly equipped C-250.

Now from what I have gathered here is why you would prefer the C-250:

Leg room - rear seat leg room is tight on the CLA, if you care about that... and that's it.

If you bump up to a C-300 the performance numbers are comparable to the CLA but that will be an extra $2,500, although you get AWD, which if added to the CLA as an option brings you very close to the monthly payment of a C-300.  The C-300 offers 248 HP and 251 lb/ft torque but cuts into fuel economy with 9.1 l/100km due mainly to added weight and more thirsty engine.  There is no way I would go for the C-250, the C-300 would be the way to go for an extra $2,500 for more power and AWD.  But still I think the CLA would be the car of choice for me.

The thing to keep in mind here though is that the C-Series will be getting a complete overhaul next year.  It will be bigger, faster, and better equipped to be sure.  The CLA is the darling now but who knows what next year will bring......

Mercedes CLA - Part 1

Mercedes has a new vehicle in their line-up, the CLA.  This is Mercedes' attempt to draw in buyers like me and you..... starting at 33,900 it seems like luxury car-dom is within our grasp.  This car is only about $6,000 more than my Optima before delivery and tax.  So I mean who wouldn't pay $6,000 more to get a Mercedes over and Optima???

Well.... here's what you don't get on the base CLA, heated front seats, heated rear seats, cooled seats, automatic climate control, panoramic sunroof, or back up camera.  That will be an extra $2,800 + tax or about $3,200 in total.  So now we are at about $9,000 more than my Optima.  But at least you get a rear wheel drive set up right, no not right, the new CLA is front wheel drive.  It does out hp the Optima 208 to 200 and really out  classes the Optima with 258 lb/ft compared to about 186.  The CLA also gets super gas mileage, with a stated average 6.6 L/100km.  

There are several good sites out there with good reviews on the new CLA however, the more you look into it I think the biggest competition comes from within.... To be continued.

Ford Employee Pricing

For the month of August Ford has their employee pricing event on which is supposed to be the best deals of the year. I decided to do some research to see how good the savings are right now with my test vehicle being the Ford F-150 because it looked like this is where the big savings were to be found.  If you are not familiar with ford, their pricing schemes are easily the most complex in existence.  They often switch between low rates with low discounts and high rates with big discounts, even from month to month you can see dramatic changes in their discounting methods.  I am guessing they are trying to hit a larger audience, since older buyers probably like the discounts but younger buyers like the low rates, so they try and hit both markets by switching back and forth.

That's just the start of it, lets say for instance you like the F-150 XLT.  You get 4 engine choices, 4 box length choices and 11 axel ratios..... all those are not exclusive since one type often goes with another but it is a LOT of options.  Each configuration has a different discount applied so considering they have 9 different models to apply a multitude of configurations it's safe to say there are probably over 100 different pricing models for the F-150.

I didn't have a week to put this together so I figured I would stick to base configurations of each model to look at the discounting.  The details on savings are below but suffice to say there are some really good deals on the F-150 right now.  The XLT and FX2 seem like really good deals and the rates are not bad now either with 3.49% for five years and 4.49% for seven years.  The other striking thing from looking at the F-150 is the wide margin of prices!  You can go from under $20 k to just over $50 k.

I'd say if you are in the market for a new pick-up the F-150 is a great deal!



Here is a summary:

MODEL	PRICE	DISCOUNT	NET	% OFF
XL	19,999	1,985	18,014	10%
STX	27,299	7,688	19,611	28%
XLT	30,199	8,913	21,286	30%
FX2	39,899	11,771	28,128	30%
FX4	45,799	12,597	33,202	28%
Lariat	45,299	12,527	32,772	28%
King Ranch	60,499	14,655	45,844	24%
Platinum	61,099	14,739	46,360	24%
Limited	64,799	14,757	50,042	23%

Autos.ca - Best cars of 2013

On autos.ca today there was an article on the best 2013 model year vehicles in their opinion.  You can read the article here:

http://www.autos.ca/auto-consumer-info/feature-autos-ca-2013-top-picks/

I agree with most of their picks but not when it comes to mid-sized sedans.  Why do they have to pick the Accord..... of all things the Accord.  It may be the best mid-sized sedan based on all the individual factors but I just don't think it is the best package when you factor in the intangibles.  It comes only in shades of grey, has a CVT transmission and is just plain boring.

Now the new Ford Fusion is a thing of beauty and comes with 4 engine choices along with all the Ford technology, looks to be a great vehicle.  I haven't seen one driving around yet but I bet there will be lots in the next couple of years.

One of the cars I would love to test out is the Scion FR-S, they are sold here at the local Toyota dealership.  It's an affordable rear wheel drive sports car that looks great.  They also have a very simple but effective website www.scion.ca.

In the compact luxury category you will find the new Cadillac ATS that is getting great reviews and the Mercedes C Series, but no BMW.  The BMW 5 series does get the nod in the luxury high end category but with the new 3 series coming out this year I'm sure they expected to dominate Cadillac and Mercedes in the compact luxury category as well.

Anyway check out the article, lots of great cars there!

Suzuki Kizashi - Final Update

I could have called this update #2, but this is probably the last time I will ever discuss a Suzuki Kizashi.  I emailed back to the salesguy thinking the the $210 / biweekly for 5 years was too good to be true and sure enough.... it was.  He told me the $210 was over six years at 5.99% interest, still not a horrible deal but not half the deal it was if it was over five years.

If you crunch the numbers 23,995 + tax @ 5.99% interest over 72 months works out to $208 biweekly.  I'm sure they add in a few hundred bucks admin fee which brings it up to a nice round $210.  You get to pay $5,300 in interest for the $6,500 cash discount...... so you actually save about $1,000 over the non-sale stated price at 0%.  Not so wonderful a deal any more, but car deals rarely are as they seem.

If I email back this time next year, I bet they still have those cars.

Suzuki Kizashi Update #1

I emailed the local Suzuki dealership and they have two Kizashi available.  One red S model and one white SX model.  When I was there a year ago coincidentally enough they had one red S and two white SX models, so I guess they managed to sell one of them.  I asked about pricing and they just emailed me back to say the S model is indeed $23,995 and it would be $210 bi-weekly after tax.

Lets check the numbers shall we:

If you were using a five year purchase with 0% the $23,995 + $3120 tax = 27,115 / 60 payments = $450 / mth or about $209 bi-weekly.  If the $210 is for five years then this is a very impressive deal, I am thinking there is a catch and I am gone back to get more details.  If you get $6,500 off and 0% then someone should go buy that vehicle.

Stay tuned for further updates!

Suzuki Kizashi - Great Deal?

Suzuki has a minor problem on it's hands...... they will no longer be sold in the US.  Actually that's a major problem for sales but they don't actually sell many vehicles in North America so it probably saves them money not to bother trying.

In any event mixed in with our weekly flyer batch was a glossy lime green one from Suzuki.  According to the ad you can save over $6,500 off a 2013 Kazashi S iAWD, which actually seems like a really good deal at 0% for 5 years.  On the bottom of the flyer it also says the price includes delivery, air tax and oil changes for three years.  When I was looking at these vehicles a year ago, the same one was $29,995 plus extras, this requires further investigation.... an email to Suzuki is in order.  If you go to the website and price one up with the automatic CVT transmission, the total comes to $29,645 with delivery so I am guessing it is $850 for the "free" oil changes, since the advertised price is $30,495.

As I dig into the small print, the $6,500 is off the cash purchase price, meaning if you go to your bank and pay about 6% interest or happen to have $25,000 hanging around you get $6,500 off otherwise you get nothing off but you do get 0% interest.  Obviously it is better to go with the $6,500 off on such a relatively low purchase price, you will end up saving about $50 a month or $3,000 over a 5 year purchase term as opposed to taking 0% at the full purchase price.

I am going to add an update to this once I get an email back from them.

Rear Wheel Drive vs Front Wheel Drive

Other than the fact that front wheel drive is better in the snow and is generally more fuel efficient I was wondering what the other major differences were.  More to the point I was wondering why expensive cars normally have rear wheel drive.... BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc....

There was a great article in the Globe and Mail on this yesterday:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/car-life/front-wheel-drive-the-automotive-equivalent-of-stretch-pants/article4631115/

As it turns out, basically a rear wheel drive is more fun to drive, which I can attest to from test driving a couple nice BMWs.  Unfortunately around here, handling in the snow is also a major drive-ability factor.  This is taken care of with the variety of AWD systems available in the Audi, Mercedes and BMWs of the world.  If you have ever been on one of these vehicles, rear seat space in the middle is extremely limited by the hump from the rear wheel drive train.  But lets face it, it's not very often you would be squeezing three people in the back seat.

If things work out I will be upgrading to a rear wheel driving machine for my next vehicle, now I am looking forward to it even more.

Kia Optima Creation!

Check out this discovery channel show on the Kia Optima, I guarantee you will want to run out and buy one!

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/discovery-presents/discovery-special-birth-of-a-kia-optima/

2013 Ford Fusion

Here is a good article on the new 2013 Ford Fusion, it has a radical re-design that may scare away conservative types:  http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/first-drive-2013-ford-fusion/

This will mean that pretty soon, the 2012 models will be increasingly difficult to sell, people will either be scared away from Fusions by the new look or love the new look and refuse to buy the older model.  Right now Ford are offering $7,000 off the 2012 Fusion SEL with AWD, and $7,500 off the Sport model (compared to $2,500 off the 2013 models).  Unfortunately they are charging an outrageous 5.79% interest which puts a dent in the savings for sure.  That's normal operating procedure for Ford of course, high discounts combined with high rates, it must work for their target market, they are the only company that consistently uses that approach.  The customer can walk away saying "I saved over $7,000 on the vehicle"...... yes and you paid almost $5,000 in interest charges as well.

I think the new model looks great, not Kia Optima EX Luxury great but better than most out there. I'd say better than all except the Optima right now for an affordable mid sized sedan.  The SE AWD looks especially appealing with an intercooled turbo 2.0L 237 HP engine.

Response to comment Optima vs Forester Part 2

Dear T,

I wouldn't be worried about space with one kid, ever with all the unnecessary crap people take along with kids these days, the Optima has a huge trunk and very spacious back seat.  The kid will love the heated rear seats when he gets it sit on them!

If you go to get prices on both make sure you ask for the non-extra pricing as a good starting point.  Then if for some reason you want over priced extras you can add them on after.  Just ask what the price of the vehicle is and do your own loan calculations at home once they give you some numbers.  I had extensive email trails I could refer back to so get them to put all the details you want in email, it's a good bargaining chip if nothing else.  Don't fall for the slickness of the salesperson either, it's all smoke and mirrors.  Go home and do the numbers yourself. 

Are you trading in a vehicle or just buying new, if you are trading, don't mention that until you get a price, then if you get a trade quote ask for the before tax trade value.  I found Subaru were VERY low ball on the trade but it might just have been their starting point, I never got into serious negotiations with them.  Not that Kia were much better but they were slightly better.

As far as Kia losing 80% of it's value, that is the OLD Kia.  If you could get a 5 year old Kia Optima EX Luxury in good shape for $6,000.... I'd say buy it.  I have no idea why anyone would pay substantially more for a 5 year old 2011 accord over a 2011 Optima that has been under warranty for 5 years.  I think the honda/toyota vs Kia reputation gap is closing fast, I mean the Optima was car of the year I think that speaks volumes!

Lemme know how you make out with it.

Buying my new vehicle - Part 4

So Mr. Kia salesman called me back and said the best they can do is $279 bi-weekly.  Which of course was more than the $259 from Grand Falls.  I told him there was no way I was paying $20 bi-weekly for the same car.  He then asked if the Grand Falls car was an EX Luxury and I said no it was an EX+.  Well he said their $283 was based on an EX Luxury.  Now I asked him at least twice what their showroom model was and he said EX+ although I thought it was a Luxury because it had the Infinity stereo.  

But the point was that at $283 bi-weekly they were no longer trying to rip me off.  If you use the online calculator (www.kia.ca) you get very close to the same amount with allowance for admin fees of $399.  SO FINALLY they had listened to me and gave me the price on just the car without all the crap they try top add on.  Here is the list of ad-ons that they assume everyone wants and gets quoted up front:

Undercoating (why with a 5 year rust warranty and it costs $500!)
Fabric Protection (on leather seats???)
Tire warranty (say what??)
Globali Security blah blah blah (they can't even tell you what this is and it costs $300)
Gap protection (I have no idea what this is)
Life insurance
Freedom driving club (paying for all maintenance up front)

So all this stuff costs several thousand dollars and they assume everyone wants it.  Who out there has ever gotten their $400 worth out of a tire warranty???  I mean the tires only last 2 or 3 years tops.   But they assume everyone wants this and won't question paying for it because it is only an extra $20-$30 bi-weekly but that can add up to over $4000 over the 5 years.

Anyway I liked the car so we had a deal at $283 bi-weekly..... until I found out they still had undercoating included because they said it was already done, until I had them check it and it clearly wasn't so they cut me a cheque for $500.   Then at the last minute I added tinting so it crept up to $285.

Off to the finance lady I went and she tried to sell me all the stuff I didn't want in the first place.  They always put the attractive women in the finance shop, I guess so men won't say no to all the extras.  She she told me the tire warranty was very popular and 99% of people buy it, I said I am the other 1%.  Then she started on insurance and I told her not to bother with it all just give me the papers to sign.  So she printed all the stuff, I noticed she left out the 90 day no payments (how convenient) so she had to call the bank and redo the paperwork, I waited 5 minutes and the deal was done.  They still added in $80 in more admin fees for something but I let it slide. 

Anyway out I went to get my new car, the salesguy made a point of saying that I would be getting a survey from Kia and his commission was based on how I filled it out...... Oh I could be so mean but its not his fault the dealership tries to squeeze every cent out of unsuspecting customers.  They left some plastic on the seat belt and a small stain on the back seat but other than that everything was perfect.

Next post will be about my first week with my new baby!

If anyone wants more info just leave a comment and I will respond.